Here's what every writer needs to know about AI: You can either adapt or get left behind.
But what does adapting actually look like when you're not trying to replace yourself?
😉 TLDR: It’s complicated. And it’s changing every day.
I talked with Kevin Rogers of Copy Chief about what it actually means to be a writer right now, when AI is shifting how we work, how we talk to clients, and how we define our value.
Kevin started as a stand-up comic, then taught himself direct response copy under John Carlton, and has since built one of the most respected coaching communities for freelance writers. He's thoughtful, honest, and funny in a way that doesn't try too hard.
This conversation goes into the practical stuff: how we're each using AI, what it means to specialize, and why your taste, voice, and judgment still matter most.
Below is the fully edited transcript of our chat. Cleaned up for clarity, and yes, mostly edited by AI. (Which is fitting. And also... I’m learning to use Claude as a strategic partner.)
Jen: Hey, everybody, this is Kevin Rogers of Copy Chief. He is an amazing direct response copywriter, but more than that, he is such a leading voice in the copywriting community. He’s mentored hundreds of talented people by just being Papa Kev, basically.
Kevin: Papa Kev. I know.
Jen: The nickname fits perfectly—Kevin has this generous, mentoring spirit in the copywriting world. He's the guy other writers turn to for guidance, community, and straight talk about the craft.
The truth is, you have a choice whether to be scared or adapt.
The internal and external struggle we're all facing
Jen: So Papa Kev has done a deep dive into AI and what it means for the craft of copywriting, but also for professional writers in general. Especially people who work online who identify as “knowledge workers.”
We're going to spend some time riffing about what this means.
Let's start with where we were before we hopped on this Live—talking about how things today are so different from how they were six months ago.
You now have to be able to have an intelligent conversation with a client about how you use AI as a tool. And you have to sort of decide for yourself where you stand.
Kevin: It's like an internal and external—I wouldn't call it a battle, but exploration happening for all creative knowledge workers. First of all, let's start with the internal.
We're all going through it together, but in very different ways. I was comparing it to the pandemic when everybody was pretty much dealing with the same realities in real time. The effects on their lives were immediate and consistent.
We all have to wear masks. We have to stand six feet apart. Everybody's learning how to be in their home together in new ways and working from home. And it was a pretty universal experience.
This is really on the same level of magnitude, but it's at the hands of tech. And not everybody's experiencing it the same way.
It struck me last weekend—there were tree trimmers out front all day long. And I got to watch them do their amazing work. It's the most dangerous job in the world to dangle from a tree with a live chainsaw.
And then the next day, they replaced the roof on the house behind me in one day. It was amazing. And I thought to myself: These workers I can see right now, they don't have to think about AI. It's not coming for their industry in immediate, direct ways.
But for knowledge workers, everybody's on their heels.
And the truth is, you have a choice whether to be scared or adapt.
The internal struggle: You'll face moments as a creative when you start to realize how much of the grunt work you can do very well and very quickly using an AI tool.
And they’ll help you get to the moment where you show up and shine the way only you can.
And it's going to feel like cheating sometimes.
But it also feels like a miracle that you no longer have to do all those things the hard way.
And then the question becomes: how much of this can I hand off without it compromising how I show up?
The external struggle: How do we explain to clients where it is in our process and still make them see that we're savvy about it, but we're absolutely needed in the process more than ever?
The only way for you to be able to do any of these things is to be very immersed with the tools.
Where AI helps vs. where you're irreplaceable
Jen: So, how savvy do we have to be? How much can it help us do things better?
And where do we personally draw the line, recognizing that these are the strengths I bring to the table, whether I'm using AI or not?
Understanding that these are the ways it's helping me be either more effective or more efficient or brainstorm better.
It's almost like you have to summarize really succinctly to someone how you use it in your process. So that you're relevant, and also your skills are evolving as the tools are evolving. But it's not taking over what it is you bring to it.
Kevin: The big takeaway I want to say is that the only way for you to be able to do any of these things is to be very immersed with the tools.
If you're a lazy attorney and you've been just shuffling papers to get through cases, you're in trouble.
If you're not bringing something of yourself to the process that's unique—most people couldn't care less how much AI is helping you do your work. They're trusting you, the person, to show up and win the case.
And if you're still fumbling around on the free version of ChatGPT doing really shitty things, you need to upgrade and start learning what these tools can actually do.
No more hiding.
It's like hiring your first VA. The big hangup people have is, "I don't know what to give them or what to have them do. I know I need help, but I don't know if I trust them to do it."
Then you get on a call with a really good VA and they just lay out all the "here's what I do for other clients." And you're like, "Oh my God, you could do that? … and that?" And suddenly, you went from being skeptical and apprehensive to excited.
It's a very similar experience. You just have to remember along the way that you are in charge. It's going to kiss your butt and tell you every idea you had was brilliant.
So you have to be very discerning about what you want to accomplish. If you go in with a very clear intent for the outcome, then you'll get much better results.
How I'm using AI as my editorial assistant
Here's a concrete example: I will take client call transcripts—my favorite thing—because we're all using AI in different ways.
So I have a call recorder. It gives me a transcript. I'll take three or four client transcripts, put them into Claude, and say, "Okay, help me come up with some content ideas. What are the themes that happened in all these client calls that people are struggling with?"
And that can help me brainstorm topics for my next few emails or even create a workbook.
Building AI writing assistants for authors
Jen: It's a whole new way of thinking about how we use our skills and the critical analysis we've gathered from years of writing—and then bring those to create tools that make somebody else's business a little easier.
I feel like I've set up this new role that, for the right client, I can immerse myself in it, learn new things, and deliver a tool that’s simple for them to use.
I'm learning on the job. But I’m essentially training this tool to do a lot of what I was doing for clients. (It’s a weird world we’re living in, folks. 🥴)
I understand how to train a custom GPT to provide feedback on cohesiveness and structure, and offer suggestions to strengthen whatever they’re working on.
And it's a really interesting thing because one client I did this for loves it. He's like, "This is magic. Are you kidding?" He loves the feedback.
And another one who's a little bit older is confused by it. She's like, "Wait, but I don’t know if this is right for me..." you know what I mean?
The one-on-one approach to custom AI tools
Someone asked in the chat: Can you create a GPT that does different marketing things that I can’t write myself, wouldn't think of, and that would actually be helpful?
Jen: The answer to that question is yes, absolutely.
And I think a follow-up would be: how do you decide what that person needs?
And that's where the relationship part comes in.
I wouldn't think about creating a marketing tool to help authors in a general way.
Right now, I see it as a really individual thing. So that's where I would be like, yes, I work one-on-one with someone to help you figure out: okay, what can we build for you that will help you with your specific stuff?
The things that you struggle with are going to be way different than the things that another author struggles with.
Kevin: That's a good answer.
Where to draw the line: Creative vs. operational work
Jen: I'm in a Substack group where we all talk about our Substacks and how to grow them, engage readers, and make more connections. And so AI is obviously a topic all the time. And in the last six months, it's changed so much.
Because we’re all like, "AI can’t do our personal writing."
And I write things all the time for my Substack, where I'm not using it.
It just depends what we're talking about. So we don't have to talk about the creative writing that you're doing, the book that you're writing, or the recipes that you're writing.
However, how to share those recipes, how to interview other cookbook authors, and do a written transcript of that—there are just a lot of ways that understanding how to use the tools in a way that cuts down on your time, but then also can give you some good outputs.
The grunt work advantage
Kevin: It's sort of like that show where the CEO would go disguise himself and work with the crew one day to clean out the porta potties. And it was so fascinating because he's commenting on, "Wow, this is hard work. And I didn't even know that this part of it was so inefficient and we're putting these people in danger by not protecting them from bacteria."
It's because CEOs normally don't work their way up from the ground up in a company. They're looking at data, and they're having expensive dinners and making deals. That's their job.
But for us, we are the CEO of our businesses, and we've gotten there by doing all the grunt work ourselves. And so we understand the process, which gives us a significant advantage over someone who comes in now, where AI already exists and it can perform many of those tasks.
They're going to be missing a piece of what it really means.
From phone recordings to AI transcription
Jen: I started out as a content writer years ago and worked for real estate agents, interviewing businesses in neighborhoods for their blogs. I'd record the interview on my phone, then transcribe the recording and turn it into a blog post interview style—like this conversation we're having right now.
Today?
I run the transcript through Claude. For example, this interview will get edited by AI for the post you're reading. What used to take hours and hours of manual transcription and editing now happens in a couple of hours.
But I’ll still need to go through a few drafts. There are always places where part of this conversation was left out, or important points were skipped over, so the context of the section doesn’t make sense.
I’m driving the tool to create the version I want.
What's still human—and always will be
Kevin: Human nature doesn't change overnight. So just keep doing what you're doing and figure out how you use the tool. And depending on what industry you're in, frankly, it's not that relevant.
Just off the top of my mind, if you have a Substack about cooking, maybe you build something that can make searching recipes easier or combining ingredients in interesting ways easier.
But they still want to hear it from you because they love the way you go about cooking, the way you talk about food, and the way you write.
Anybody could go to the bookstore and buy a cookbook from somebody they've never heard of before.
But in the times we live in now, where connection is expected and it's the click of a button to have this conversation—that's the new standard.
And that's to our advantage because we have to actually show up for that.
"They still want to hear it from you because they love the way you talk about food, the way you write."
Teaching the next generation (and ourselves)
Jen: I was talking to a university writing professor about six months ago, and she was feeling like, "Wait, if we don't incorporate this into the curriculum and help them understand how to use it, how much of a disservice are we doing in their education?"
Her students are using it, and they're more skilled than she is.
Kevin: Well, like you said, it also remarks on how quickly things have changed.
You know, a year ago, professors were scrambling to detect things when students were using AI, but now they have to assume they are.
How can you have a rule that says not to use it when everyone is already doing it?
The thing we want to do is make sure people don't stop using their brains.
My son is 21, and he's just gotten bitten by the copywriting bug. To me, this is so interesting because he has a relationship with GPT, uses it for relationship advice, and for how to market his band, and all these cool things.
But he also respects our craft because he's grown up around it. He's met all the great copywriters, and he knows the DNA of it.
So he just has to have two tracks of learning. Read the books, handwrite the sales pages, tell me why this sales letter is better than that one, and all these things. And then go to GPT and let it help you critique, learn, and guide you through exercises.
But make sure you're still developing that part of your brain, or you'll never be worthy enough to sustain.
Curiosity over fear
Kevin: The only thing to know is: know all you can. Find your groove with it. Don't be scared of it. If you don't know where to start, just ask it: "Where should I start? I'm trying to get to know you. I don't like you yet. Make me like you."
Jen: Yep, just start with curiosity.
Kevin: We can't be hiding and trying to decide where we stand on it. We just have to immerse ourselves and get curious.
You've got to be able to talk to your peers and your colleagues about what you're learning and how it's changing, and what they are learning. That's the way to sort of ride the curve.
Where this is all heading
Kevin: AI is presently a one-on-one exercise. But I'll tell you that group working sessions already exist and they call them agents. Best I can describe it: an AI agent is like a COO who's in charge of a project.
You'll give it a complex problem—let's just say, "I want to explore the real estate opportunities in the state of Colorado. I want to know what all the laws are and what's the history of insurance and tax"—and it'll take that task and go work with other agents who have expertise in those things. So it's like an army of computer people working together to give you a full report on what you asked for.
That's the next level that big companies are really working with. What we're doing, honestly, is child's play.
I'm glad we had this chance to have this conversation. I'm happy to do it more. It could be a new conversation like every six months.
What's next?
Want to be part of conversations like this?
I'm planning more live interviews with writers and authorpreneurs about how we're actually using AI. Not the hype, not the fear-mongering—just the real tools, messy experiments, and honest questions we're all wrestling with.
Because here's what I've learned: the writers who are figuring this out aren't hiding in their corners. They're sharing what works, what doesn't, and collaborating with each other, trying to understand.
Hit reply and tell me: What's your biggest AI question right now? What would you want to hear other writers talk about? Or better yet, what have you figured out that the rest of us need to know?
Let's keep this conversation going.
A big thank you to
, , , and the rest of you for joining this live conversation with and asking questions!
P.S. I’ll host a subscriber chat this Thursday, 6/12, from 2pm-5pm CST for questions and to continue this conversation. We’re all in this together, so let’s talk about it without shaming anyone or hiding in fear.
Collaboration and community are always my way forward. (With or without AI tools.)
Join me for my next live video in the app.
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