Thanks so much Hillary Dixler Canavan , Kristi Keller 🇨🇦, Abbey Algiers, Indie, Sophie Davies, and many others for tuning into this live video with Seth Werkheiser!
Here's what every newsletter writer needs to hear: Going viral isn't the goal.
I know that sounds counterintuitive when you're watching other people's Substack Notes blow up with thousands of likes and hundreds of new subscribers.
But here's the uncomfortable truth—and this comes from a conversation I had with Seth Werkheiser of Social Media Escape Club—those viral moments rarely bring you the right people.
The unexpected gems from our conversation:
"Only 10? That's great." When I told Seth only 10 out of 500 subscribers signed up for discovery calls, his reframe changed everything about how I think about small numbers
The algorithm gamble isn't worth it. Hoping social media shows you favor for your next launch is a terrible bet compared to the slow, steady work of building an email list
Instead of 10 posts, talk to 10 people. Seth's approach to building real connections beats content creation every time
The magic happens after the show. Like musicians connecting with fans after a concert, real relationships form in one-on-one conversations
Viral subscribers are often the wrong subscribers. That client who got 500 new followers from a viral Note? Most weren't a great fit for her newsletter
Seth and I spent 30 minutes talking about the three-legged table every author needs: social media for visibility, a website as your digital home, and an email list for direct relationships. We also got into why focusing on the subscribers you already have beats chasing new ones every time.
Below is our edited conversation. We got real about the numbers trap, why connection beats collection, and what it actually takes to build something that lasts.
The Three-Legged Table
Jen: Seth and I were brainstorming because we both talk to people who struggle to understand what the point is of websites, email lists, and social media. So let me break this down.
Social media is where you get visibility, attention, and conversations. You're putting your work out there and making connections. But ultimately, when you make those connections and people like what you're doing, you want a place to send them.
You want your social media profiles to drive people to your website—that's your digital home. That's the home you own on the internet, rather than social media where you're renting a little condo.
And when they get to your website, you want an email list so they can put in their email and you can have a direct relationship with them.
Seth: People put so much time and energy into TikTok and Instagram. And yes, for visibility, absolutely. But it has to drive people to a place where you actually have that direct connection and you're in charge. The algorithm isn't taking over who sees your work when.
The Viral Trap
Jen: So thinking about going viral, I question it more and more as a goal worth attaining. Let's talk about Substack Notes and the whole viral thing that's happening there.
I was listening to Claire Venus talk about a client whose Note had gone viral—2,000 to 3,000 people saw it and commented. It brought maybe 500 new subscribers. But when she started emailing and reaching out to figure out what to do with this influx, they weren't actually the right people for her Substack.
She got a lot of attention and new names, but the majority weren't a great fit.
I've never been one of those big sexy people who's going to go viral. I've sort of come to terms with that. And that's okay. I don't need 10,000 people talking about me on TikTok. Or any of my posts to spark big controversy.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t like something to take off, but it’s not my goal.
Seth: And the big thing about if you hit it big, if you go viral with social media, something takes off—what are you going to do? Are you going to do it the next day too?
Or your next launch, your next release, your next book that comes out? Hoping that the algorithm shows you favor is not a great bet. There's a lot better ways to be in touch with the people that love your work, and that's the slow and steady work of building an email list.
Jen: It's all about getting the right people on your email list. The numbers sound great, but if you've got a bunch of people who just don't care, that's not fun. If you fill your email list with people just for the numbers, but they don't open emails or click anything—they're probably not going to buy your thing or support your work. So what's the point?
Jen: It's all about getting the right people on your email list. The numbers sound great, but if you've got a bunch of people who just don't care, that's not fun. If you fill your email list with people just for the numbers, but they don't open emails or click anything—they're probably not going to buy your thing. So what's the point?
Focus on Who You Already Have
Seth: If you gain a thousand new followers on Instagram, the next time you send something, maybe a hundred people will see it. So why not just work on the 100 people you have on your email list that you can talk to directly? Are you sure those 100 people know about your big offering, your next thing? Not everybody reads every single word you put out. Tell them again. Reframe it.
Jen: That's such a great point. It's always "more, more, more—I need more subscribers." But what are we doing for the ones we have? If we don't talk to them, if we don't know what any of them might be thinking about our work, how many people do we just have casually still getting our emails but not really engaged?
The 500 Subscriber Wake-Up Call
Jen: I hit 500 subscribers and thought, okay, before I push myself to do more, I need to celebrate that and figure out who these 500 people are. I wasn't getting much engagement or comments.
I did a little experiment—polling people about what they were interested in, then set up free discovery calls. Out of 500 people, only 10 signed up for coffee chats.
Seth: Only 10? That's great. You got 10 people to talk to you.
Jen: Thank you for catching me on that. They were all over the place. They had nothing in common. I had a strategy session with someone who said, "Well, that's because you're not being clear enough. Your Substack is all over the place, and you're not being clear about who you're talking to."
This is me—someone who talks to people about this all the time—learning this lesson the hard way. It took a lot of legwork to get those people. It wasn't like I sent one email and they all signed up.
Seth: I bet that’s when the engagement started, right? When you got clear.
Instead of 10 Posts, Talk to 10 People
Seth: Instead of 10 posts, what if you just talked to 10 people? Have 10 Zoom calls with people. It's scary—you don't know who you might be talking to. But you can select who those 10 people are. If someone's always commenting on your stuff, that's probably a good person to DM and say, "Hey, can we hop on a Zoom call?"
Build that group of people to figure out and think about and knock ideas around with, instead of constantly publish, publish, publish and hope something sticks.
Jen: You need courage. You need to step up and talk to some people.
Seth: In the music world, the magic happened after a show when the lights came up and everyone was going home, and you were talking to the musician after the show. I got to be that person—the musician people came up to and talked to. You want that. Start now. You can't have a successful book tour without talking to a couple of people first.
What Keeps You Going
Seth: I do three calls a week for paid members where we all just get together. There are plenty of calls with only two people. But they're great. We have this great conversation for an hour, get to know each other, and figure out what we're all doing.
I'm not like, "Do this, this, and this, and that's how you'll succeed." I'm like, "Yo, I've seen a bunch of stuff. You've seen stuff. Let's just talk about it and get over the shame of 'I'm not good at social media, I'm not good at marketing.'
Because I'm a writer, I'm a photographer, I'm a musician. That's my thing. Let's figure out this other stuff together.
Even when my growth has flattened, when I've had subscriber drop-offs—whatever, I'm still on all these calls talking to people. I focus on talking to who I've got in front of me, and it's great.
Jen: That's what keeps your engagement going. Because this is such a long game for writers and creators. You have to have things that keep you engaged and motivate you to keep doing it. People aren't going to engage with your work if you're not feeling it.
Meeting you, meeting Kristi Keller, Claire Venus—knowing those people makes me excited to get back from the summer lull of just sending emails or doing the bare minimum.
The LinkedIn Challenge Mindset Shift
Jen: I'm in this newsletter group where they're sharing ideas and growth hacks. So I joined in on a 30-day visibility challenge on LinkedIn, where you post daily and comment on each other's stuff to get to know each other.
I'm doing it, but I had to reframe it in my head.
This morning, I was thinking, "Who can I connect with in this challenge, and we can have a Zoom coffee chat?" Because if I do a couple of Zoom coffee chats with people and get to know them, I'm not going to be as intimidated when I see other people crushing the challenge.
I need to relax my nervous system and think of this as a challenge I'm doing for me and to meet people, not performing for new subscribers or trying to prove something.
Seth: That's huge—reaching out and creating something outside of what's already there.
Jen: I've been thinking about doing regular Zoom calls for a year. But I know the first three, nobody will show up. And I so don’t want to go through that!
Seth: You have to show up anyway. You have to keep going until it gets traction. I reached out to friends individually and said, "Hey, can you hop on a Zoom call with me?" So my first couple of calls had two or three people because I asked people individually. I'd rather invite than just put out an open call. Bring the people you want to hang out with.
And monetization? Worry about that later. I did. I was like, I'll figure it out later. And I did. I still invite the 30 people who showed up to those early free calls, but now it's a paid feature.
Building Community, Not Just Content
Seth: My Social Media Escape Club started as a newsletter about getting away from social media and turned into more of a community where I do weekly calls with creative people—artists, musicians, writers—all talking about getting away from social media and finding the peace and calm of not putting all your eggs in that basket every day, not spending six hours staring at your phone.
The Connection Back to Your Digital Home
Jen: This circles back to why you need a website. You're reaching out to people on social media, but you want to bring them back somewhere. You're bringing them back to your website to see your work. So make sure your website is a place that showcases your best work.
When I work with clients setting up their Substack, they're always surprised to know you can use home links that connect your Substack to your website. You can link back and forth.
I remember being on different Substack community Zoom calls, and the hosts would say, "Hey everybody, put your links in the chat." In the early days of Substack, that was how I got my first subscribers. We'd all subscribe to each other after showing up for Zoom calls.
What This Means for Your Newsletter
Stop worrying about scale. Don't ask "How can I do this with 100 people?" Just try it with two. Cross that bridge when you get there.
The magic might not take 10,000 people. It might take two connections that lead to a real break.
Focus on connection over collection. It's about going deeper with the people you have instead of chasing more visibility.
Test this: Look at your subscriber list. Find someone who comments regularly. Send them a DM asking if they'd be up for a 15-minute coffee chat or just DM to get to know each other.
See what happens when you prioritize relationship over reach.
What's one way you could connect more directly with the subscribers you already have? Tell us in the comments or hit reply to this email.
P.S. This conversation happened because Seth and I connected through Substack, started DMing, and decided to make something happen together. Sometimes the best strategy is just reaching out.
Join me for my next live video in the app.
